GW2: Changing WvW Requirement in World Completion

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6 comments on GW2: Changing WvW Requirement in World Completion


Update: This change has been officially confirmed on the GW2 website.

So the newest GW2 patch notes for the Chinese client, which were copied and posted on Reddit, talked about the camera changes, new faces and some class changes. Tucked in the middle of it all sat one of the biggest announcements (IMHO):

WvW removed from map completion

This has been a little PvE vs PvP controversy since GW2 first launched, and an issue that rubbed me wrong on more than one occasion. In order to complete 100% of maps in GW2, players were forced to also clear maps in the PvP areas. Whether you liked PvP or not… whether this was even possible due to your server’s WvW standings… it didn’t matter.

The GW2 devs have said more than once that they have a “Try it, you’ll like it!” idealism towards PvE-only players. They wouldn’t remove WvW requirements from map completion because they thought if they could somehow dangle that carrot hard enough, they could show PvE players that WvW was something FUN!

Yeah. Right.

What that ended up doing was annoying PvE players and pushing them the other way. I promise you, the moment a game forces me into “trying” something I don’t view as fun, I’m much more likely to quit the whole thing… and possibly even the game itself… to do something I DO think is fun. Which is exactly what happened.

Syn and I spent hours and hours and hours uncovering the maps in GW1 to get our Legendary Cartographer title. Sometimes it was frustrating, but for the most part, we had a lot of fun doing it. But, when it came to GW2 map completion, we worked on it a bit, and even had a guildie try to help us with capping things in WvW. But after the frustration of getting ganked and the unpleasantness of WvW maps, we gave up on it all together.

For us, world map completion was something that could have held our interest for quite a while at end game. I could have seen us even doing this on several characters, because this kind of thing is fun to us.

But that WvW barrier was just too frustrating. And seeing the devs not backing down, even with plenty of feedback asking for a change, made me just resentful (on top of all the other issues I’ve had with GW2’s direction).

Update: This has now been announced with its own post on the GW2 website. Nice work, guys! 

I find it interesting that more isn’t being said about this. Perhaps the PvE folks who would have cheered for this change two and a half years ago have long since wandered away for the same reasons I have. I find it interesting that such a very big change (to me) is tucked quietly away in the middle of a list of patch notes about camera changes and new face cosmetics. Perhaps Anet didn’t want to make too big a deal about it because… well, that would mean that someone there would have to admit they’ve been wrong this whole time.

Is this enough to entice me back to putting some time into my abandoned map completion project in GW2? I don’t know. That door has really long-since closed. But I’ll never say never. I’d just have to be pretty bored before I put that much time into GW2 again, I think.

6 responses to “GW2: Changing WvW Requirement in World Completion”

  1. Too little, too late.

    Even in GW1, you had to do some of the PvP areas, like Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry, to get the title.

    I’ve been stuck at 95% world map completion since about 3 months after launch, and I even *DID* play WvW for a bit. It was so boring that I just gave up.

    Yes, it means you have really poor game mechanics when you have to force players through them just to try them. I don’t know why Arenanet has to make all the same mistakes as every other MMO developer all over again. Why can’t these studios learn from others’ mistakes?

    I’m actually being turned off of the HoT expansion by all the hype. It is beginning to sound like the worst of the pitches from used car and shoe/vacuum salesmen. I really don’t think GW2 is going to enjoy the longevity that GW1 has.


    • I do remember doing Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry to get that title in GW1. But it was a quick one-shot thing. By the time Syn and I tried it, most of the excitement for those areas had died down, so it wasn’t really a gank-fest like WvW is. We just ran through the area, got what we needed and got out of the way.

      In contrast, in GW2 there are folks who sit and camp areas the PvEers need for the World Completion, especially if they’re the stronger of the three servers. We just kept getting ganked over and over again trying to reach one POI (and that was being helped by guildies who knew about WvW), and we gave up on it. Not my idea of fun.

      HOT doesn’t interest me much. I don’t have any plans on picking it up when it comes out. I also think the name is rather silly.


  2. Ironically, although I have no interest whatsoever in Map Completion, most of my dozen characters have all the WvW maps finished. The reason for that is that they are by some margin the quickest and easiest to do. The maps are small and there are comparatively few boxes to tick.

    I have almost never even run into another player when doing the vistas and skill points that lie in open areas and of course the PoIs and vistas that are inside keeps are completely safe and uncontested when your team own that structure. Over the course of a few weeks most servers will own most structures at some time or other so its very easy to pop in and grab the ones you need as they become available.

    I think a big part of the problem is that PvE-only players tend to leave WvW right to the end of their total map completion project, which means that they have no control over the situation when the time comes. It would be far easier to work on WvW maps from the very beginning and chip away at it as you level up, choosing the times when your server holds the areas you need.

    That said, it was never a great idea to include WvW in map completion. WvW players resent being asked to make poor tactical moves just because someone needs a particular tower or keep (that request is made over and over again and often causes an argument) while as you say PvE players don’t want to be there in the first place.

    I would point out that I think this situation is exactly analogous to the mandatory grouped Dungeon and Boss fights in FFXIV, without which a player cannot progress the main storyline. That mechanic was almost completely responsible for Mrs Bhagpuss deciding not to carry on playing FFXIV and she still refers to the game as unfair because of it.

    The problem is that everyone is fine with things being mandatory when they are things they are comfortable with and everyone thinks things they are uncomfortable doing should not be required in order to to do other things they do want to do.

    If it was up to me I’d make everything completable by simply clicking a box in the UI that flags you as having completed whatever content it is that you want to have completed. I have no issue whatsoever with letting all players have all things in the game on request. A lot of people seem to think it somehow “matters” that you do this stuff “properly” though.


    • We were trying to earn world completion back when the game first launched, so WvW was probably a much different animal back then. We did see folks all over the place and did get killed for our efforts. Might be different now days, but first (bad) impressions stick. I remember PvP teams camping places where they knew PvEers needed to go in order to get world completion because it was easy kills.

      The forced dungeons and primal battles in FFXIV almost made me quit the game, too. I guess I must have really wanted to play it, because while it was extremely uncomfortable for me (and some dungeons and roles still are), I changed my own mindset and played outside my comfort level to continue to make progress.

      I won’t say that I support the idea of forced group dungeons gating progression. I will say that it’s made me a stronger and better player to challenge myself to overcome my own insecurities and play that content, though.

      A group dungeon, however, is (supposed to be) 100% cooperative play, which I fully support. WvW, however, is mostly competitive play (aside from working with your own group), which I don’t enjoy one bit.

      So, there’s a huge difference for me in overcoming uncomfortable cooperative content vs uncomfortable competitive content. Anet telling me “Try it, you’ll eventually like it!” doesn’t work, and trying to force me into it just leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.

      I know if I were a PvPer out there to get stuff done, a lousy PvEer like me stumbling around would probably be just an annoyance! 🙂


  3. I resent that PvPers must Pve to get map complete and the reverse. Anet should have set up devoted servers. That way PvP can kill each other and PvEers can enjoy the relaxing challenge of the generated game world. If i want to fight with other players, i’ll play Call of Duty or Halo. I understand they want players to try all aspects of the game. They should have done it like in GW1. You try it a couple of times to complete a heart quest then done forever, if you wish. In WvW, i’ve been playing for 4 months to get one garrison that my server never holds and never attacks. I suck at making in game gold and refuse to spend real money to get the gems to transfer to the server that holds it. And, I like my server, so then i would have to spend more to get back to it.
    Just bad planning on Anet’s part.
    By way of update, there are not as many gankers in WvW. I’ve run into very few so far. I was able to get most points in WvW pretty easily. It was the points in the buildings that i needed the zerg for.


    • I agree about sever rulesets. I figured that WvW has probably leveled out over time, still don’t have good memories there. 🙂


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